Butch & Dollar Bill Daley at Deer Park Bowl

What is not mentioned to often is besides being the biggest (action match-maker / backer) of all time, Bill Daley was also a very accomplished smart tough action bowler in his own right.   AC Butch...

Jeff Kidda & Bill Daley, the beginning  -  The famous Roth/Petraglia vs Kidda/Burgland match

Bill Daley discusses action bowling  -  Bill Daley vs Butch match

Billy Red, how do you rate yourself against Bill Daly as a big time better/backer (gambler)

Have you ever gone against him in any capacity.

How do you rate Rudy vs Jeff

I believe Bill has also backed Rudy, if so, who backed him in bigger matches.

One last question, how do you rate yourself as a bowler vs Joe Scianna

Daly was a much bigger backer than me. i am not in the backing business, except when rudy revs bowls.
when rudy became the best, jeff was gone already. jeff was great but rudy started something in this game that the best bowlers are all doing today, cupped wrist with a lot of rotation. he changed the game. i also think rudy traveled more for matches and became a legend across the country. the megabucks also helped get his name across the country. jeff didnt have that luxury. they were both great in their own right. i will say though that rudy has been great thru 3 era's-rubber, urethane and resin. he adapted to all the changes. not like somepeople on this board that just complain about the equipment changes.
i have gone up against daly many times in the action both with me bowling some of his boys at deer park and also with me betting on rudy against some of his guys. those were the good times. now a days you have kids that don't even have jobs taking shots at the money. there is nothing there to win anymore. they quit 1 or 2 down at the most. you are lucky a to get a $300 bet.

A Question For Bill Daley

Was Jeff Kitter the best action bowler you were associated with, I don't know if back would be the correct phrase. If not, who was the best one you partnered with and who do you consider the best of all time.  Who was the best in the 50s - 60s - 70s - 80s - 90s  And last but not least, what was the best doubles team, meaning two guys that really bowled a lot of doubles matches together,  ala (Mac & Stoop)(Fats & Deacon)(Jeff & Cliffie)  Your the man Dollar Bill, The real Mr. Action...  I hope you reply to this post. Thanks... Kevin

jeff and cliff in doubles, 50s iggy, 60s richie, 70s lemon, 80s mark, 90s rudy...lennyd

cane was not around in the seventies. so he does not know. lemon was gone in the seventies. faino was the best from 1970-1975 and jeff kidder took over when urethane came in 1976. jeff quit in 1981 to become a professonal gambler who now resides in hilton head and plays the market for three big clients. jeff no longer a gambler. just info. anyone want to contact jeff, check with daly, i'm sure he has his E-MAIL address.  as to the 80s, mark was on tour and do not remember him bowling action. hank berhbom may have been the best after jeff retired. hank moved to florida late eighties, maybe 1987. rudy took over. but then duke was still bowling action. so when he came here, he may have been the best, but he could not beat Hank. they split twice at Pequa...Just Browsing

The biggest bettors I have seen or heard of by decade (at least $1,000 a game at times):

1960s-Hornreich, Lemon, Davie May, RC from Florida

1970s-Daley, Kidder

1980S-Daley, David Ozio, Richie and Joe Messina

1990s-Daley, Snake Lorenzo, Billy Red Cowan, Norm Duke ...OldTimer

Article: There was this guy named Jack Weinstein in the 60s who was a 180 at best, although he would get hot every now & then. He would come to Ave M in Brooklyn NY with a pocket full, at least 5 grand or more and willing to loose it, which he did many times, big, big, money in the sixties. Mac, Stoop & Bernie had his number for about 2 years, they lived off of bowling him all kinds of odd ball games. He loved bowling against the big guns from "M" even though he couldnt win. He must of lost at least 100 grand at the lanes. He was related to JW Mays, owner of Mays department stores. For some reason the only one that couldn't get into his pocket was Butch, Jack would bet on him, but not against him, you figure it...Terry

All I can say is Jeff Kitter was the best I ever saw I was an action bowler in the old days I one time sent schlaegel packing after throwing 10 in a row on two seperate lanes. Anyway I am a has been but I know that if Jeff decided to bowl instead of make real money figuring out gambling odds and real estate he would have been a legend in the tri state area. Just ask Bill Daley he was Bill's horse since Jeff was about 15 years old I have seen the two of them make wads of money in a bunch of house's ranging from Pel Park lanes to van nuys to MSG to stadium etc. etc. etc.

That night to prepare mentally for what I hoped to be the biggest money night of my life, I left my house the regular time for work, instead I went to the Manhattan Beach hotel and checked in. Went to my room, took a shower, asked for a wake up call at 9:30, laid in bed nude with just the sheet on me, I wanted to totally soak up the moment, daydream about beating Bill and Mac for about 50 big ones, all of a sudden the phone rings, It was my wake up call, I had dosed off. I met Paul and Cubby, we went to a steak joint on the way to Kuskies. Cubby kept asking me if I was sure I could beat this guy, Paul had told him it was a shoe in, which was not true, Bill Daly was a good bowler. Cubby wanted to know how much to bet, I told him to start off at $2000, he choked, but said OK. Paul said he would do the betting. I told him, Bill would just say to name it, just tell him the amount, no bluff plays. We get to the alleys, picked a pair, and started practicing. Just like I hoped, Mac was there. I'm hitting the lanes real well in practice, Paul does what I told him not to, he asks Bill Daly, what do you wanna bowl for. Bill Daly immediately shoots back, 5 grand, Mac chirps in from the background I'll take 5 more on Bill, to save face for Paul I had to say, I only wanted to start for two. I win the first game, tie the second game, win the 3rd and 4th, Bill comes over to me and has the balls to say, my lowest game is 214, and I haven't won a game yet. He said I had one of 2 choices. Change lanes or bowl Jeff Kidder on these lanes. I said no to both, he said if I didn't pick one of the two, I would never get the chance again to get into his money. I told him to get f**ked, and put my ball away. We ended up winning $10,000, I never bowled him again.

As I was walking out Barry Bernstein was walking in, he really got pissed off when he found out about the match and I didn't call him. He said it wasn't the money, it was the chance to rub it in Bills face, that he really disliked him. It was mixed feelings on the way home, the money was good, but we felt cheated. Once again, Larry wasn't there, because he and Paul also don't talk anymore... butch
 

Steve, what did you think of Jeff Kidda, I thought he had ice water in his veins, the best I ever saw.

Do you know of any bigger backer than Bill Daley.

Jeff kidder got really good when urethane lanes came in 1976. before that charlie faino was the best in the country for about 5 years. jeff retired from gambling a few years ago, lives in Hilton head and plays the market for a few clients as told to me by his former partner Bill Daly. Daly also kept a diary of all the matches they were involved in. To say kidder was the second best, you probably never saw much of Hornreich. He beat up on better bowlers. kidder did not have alot of tough competition, although he did crush Roth at Rainbow in a doubles match. And he never went on tour, because he gave up the game to become a professional gambler. he was one of the biggest around, betting 10g a game and up.

More on Jeff. You should locate his partner, Bill Daly. He has a diary of all the matches they were involved in. Heard, again only heard that he carried his own pins.
He did challenge Earl Anthony at Garden City. Earl told him to come to Seattle. He did. For reasons unknown, the match never took off. He did not always win the big ones. In 1978, he traveled to Baltimore and either bowled Pete Couture or george Pappas. Jeff lost around 5g.