Some Of butch's Favorite Postings
I ENJOYED THE BUDWEISER TEAM
WHEN IT TRAVELED FROM STATE TO STATE AND BOWLED THE BEST TEAM AROUND THE AREA,I LIVED IN ATLANTIC CITY,N.J. AT THAT TIME. THE BEST BOWLERS I REMEMBER FROM THAT AREA FOR ACTION AND EXHIBITIONIST WAS ED SOLOFF, ALONG WITH SKENDER AVRAMI & ANGELO DEMAIO FOR ACTION. (JERRY EHLMAN)
I haven't seen much
but know enough about people like Scianna (hey Joe) and Rudy Revs to know that they are pretty good. I wish I could have seen the oldies like Mike and others, but I guess I am too young. My grandfather, who knew Lemongello well, always told me that when I was growing up I should model my game after his b/c he was and always would be the best bowler in the world. I can't say I disagree.
(Bryan Manno)
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Nice to see your page on Bowlmor. I bowled there in 1973/74. The guys bowled on the lower end of the house and every week there was the biggest crowd watching this skinny guy that can rev the ball like none could - that guy was Mark Roth. I bowled with Annise Kelly and Renee Adams and other great women bowlers. It was a great time there!!!!
It is still great to be a good bowler in New York
There is still action if you know where to look. I think the problem today is that the lanes are too easy no matter where you go. Who wants to put up $1000 a game, on a carry contest. I have bowled action against Rudy "Revs", Billy "Red", Joe Scianna, and others. It is great experience espescially for tournament play. However, it seems like you always break out even. For me I don't have the kind of money to play $1000 a game, so why should I make someone else the money. You can't beat bowling in tournaments like the World Match Games, or Jim Lustig tournaments, because you only have to put up $100 or $200 bucks to win $2 or $3000.
(Lou Gaudio Jr)
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I lived and breathed action bowling
for the best 22 years of my life. Thanks for the memories. I use to love sitting in the stands at Paramus and watch some truly great classic leagues and matches
(Mark K)
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I have made a lot of money in my life.
I would give up half of it if I could experiance those great days again. I didn't bowl myself but loved betting on the matches. I couldn't get enough of it at the time, 50s, 60s & 70s and really miss it now. It was the best times of my life. The bowlers were really great.
(Bill L)
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My first match was against Chuck "Sharp".
I lost. My next whoopin' came from "Dyno" Don Starr. I lost. One day I beat Barry Bernstein 19 out of 26. I won. My next best day was when i bowled Billy Gambino when he used "collection money" and I beat him just before old man Schwartz came in to Falcaros and broke up the "party". I won. 2 wins-2 losses...oh well. Lots of others in between including odd pin, one finger odd pin, 2 ball odd pin, 175 or better- 8 or less is double zero,etc... It was the good old days..
(Tom Triple)
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There are so many memories of Brooklyn bowling
I started bowling action in the mid 70's and all I can remember is traveling alot to Maple, Diplomat, Gil Hodges, Ave M bowl. There were too many characters to mention (all had their qwerks!). Bowling has become an equipment sport. Skilled young people are so hard to find (besides, why make spares when you throw 10 strikes a game?). Be sure to check out www.nybowler.com for any additional bowling stuff!
(Mike Yenza)
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The greatest night of bowling
I remember is when this skinny, short, 16year old kid walked into Ave M Bowl in Brooklyn NY and wiped out all the big name action bowlers. The kid looked like he wasn't strong enough to use a 16lb ball. His name was Mike Lemongello
(Andy K)
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The best match I ever saw
was held at Rainbow lanes in Brooklyn NY, 1976, Johnny Petraglia and Mark Roth vs Cliffie Bergman and Jeff Kidda. Rainbow was Marks home alleys, Cliffie and Jeff lost three straight and their backer Bill Daley covered all bets. At this point Bill said the doubles match was over but Jeff would bowl Mark head to head and he'd cover the house. Mark said no, I couldn't believe it, but that's how much respect they had for Jeff Kidder. It was like a TV match, they closed the whole top floor, they bowled on the center lanes and the house was packed for this confrontation. Those were part of the great days of bowling.
(Spider)
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The highest bets I ever saw
were at Deer Park Lanes 1993. Texan Del Ballard, Jr. vs. Long Island's Rudy Kasimakis. The first game they bowled, the bet was well over $10,000. Each game after that was between $7,000 and $10,000. Del Ballard won the BPAA U.S. Open the following week on ABC Television.
(LG)
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I have seen alot of Bobby Belmont's bowling
From action to the PBA, and I truly respect this mans talent. I agree with the a**kissing in the PBA. Bob led a tournament by 300 pins in Tuscon Arizon a few years ago while on tour. I followed him throughout that whole tournament and because he wasn't an a** kisser, they set the lanes up so he couldn't even keep the ball on the lane for the TV match. The PBA is a rigged bowling establishment if I have ever seen one. It has excellent bowlers lead a tournament and then get embarrased when on national television by rigging the lanes so they have whomever they choose to win. How do you lead a tournament for 5 days and lose in the title match with a 150 game. It just doesn't work that way for the bowler. Within a few years I hope the PBA looses enough of its members that maybe it makes a reality check and takes the embarrasement out of bowling and starts carrying it as a professional sport instead of the joke that they have created. Last month I watched Bobby bowl action in Tampa where he shot games of 300,300, 279.....There were 2 guys there who said they wanted to bowl anyone for $1000 a game and when I watched Bobby put his shoes on they decided they didn't want to bowl anymore. I think that is a compliment. There have been too many nights that I have gone up against Bobby and walked away broke. Some people learn quicker than others I guess. I respect his bowling tremendously and I would like to nominate him to your hall of fame. Thank you for this site, it is refreshing to see the "not so well known" bowlers acknowledged for the talents that they carry......(Tony)
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I love listening to my pops
Tell about the old days at falcaros shooting all night pot "action" games. i wish i could have been there!! i guess those days are gone forever. p.s./ nice site!!!!!
(Georgio DeRose)
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The Second Coming
In Fort Lauderdale we have the second coming of Richie Hornreich and Mark Roth, 35 years after those 2 juniors tore apart the new york area. Having watched and bowled action in the NY area for 40 years till I moved to Florida, have I seen a more dynamic duo than these two youngsters, Matt Gilman 16 and Collin Hayes 14. Matt at age 11 bowled his first three hundred and at 12, an 800 , he now has 8 300s and has come very close to 800 on numerous other occasions, he has just been pressed by 14 year old bowling phenom Collin Hayes, who in the past 9 months has thrown 7 - 300s and 3 - 800s and has also missed narrowly throwing back to back 800s on 2 consecutive days as well as just missing several more 300s including a 299. Coached by Fred Borden and Randy Pedersen. Randy has never seen a 14 now 15 year old that good, but he never saw Richie Hornreich, and I did. In 1960, Richie at age 12, bowled a doubles match with a 16 year old against 2 guys in the navy, at Leemark lanes Brooklyn with a rubber ball, bowled 8 games with a low game of 258, including back to back games of 289 & 2- 279s with three games in the 260s. What ever happened to Richie, thats even a longer story, but in my opinion he was better than Roth, Lemongello, Petraglia, Schlegel, and the 2 hand cradle of Joe Berardi.
(LennyD)
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Rudy Rev- Early 90s - Florida
It was early ninetys maybe 1990, rudy could give you the year better than i, but it was his first go round on the pba tour for him, and i met rudy, junior simmonelli, george sabatino, the ny connection. before the tour would start, there would be a tournament for 1200 bucks at don carters tamarac lanes, and a lot of the guys from the tour showed up to bowl, and at this time, it was probably the easiest house in the country. and in 10 games i would expect rudy to bowl maybe 3 300s, but that was not the case as rudy averaged only 230 and did not cash, but george shot 300, and i believe might have gotten a check. a local bowler named joey smith was averageing 260 plus for the first seven games and was eventually caught by david white of texas, who had been bowling the tour as well, others in the field included pete weber george pappas del ballard to name a few. towards the end of the competition , i notice the lanes breaking down and advised rudy, they, he and sabatino could get a match against joey smith and another local hot shot named bob vespi. and so after the 10 gamer the action begins. bowling on 5 and 6 the first game george struggles and rudy throws the last 7 , but they lose, the next game george bowls a little better but rudy throws the last nine, and vespi and smith quit. now jr simmonelli wants me to take him to the airport, to catch a 6 am flight to ny as he was broke and wanted to go back, and while that ride to the airport took place, rudy bowls ryan boyd on the other side of the house where there was more oil and sabatino bowls vespi, rudy throws back to back 300s and ryan quits, and sabatino beats vespi 4 straight and he quits. rudy wants to know whether or not there is any more action, and i said yes. rudy missed the rabbit squad that week on monday so we had all week to look for action. on monday night we go to boca raton, where the monday after league pot games take place,and rudy proceeds to win three straight, 20 a man 6 guys in the game. then one of the players tony ahladis says to rudy ill bowl you singles for 50 a game, rudy after bowling 258 258 257 in the pot game, bowls 258 267 and 279 throwing 32 out of 36 strikes possible and loses all three games to tony who shot 279 290 300, and they were both playin 20 to the gutter , tony using a green white dot. the next night the action is in miami and i get lost going to classic lanes as i had only been there once before, when we go to a gas station to ask for directions,we come upon a drug deal and rudy says lets get out of here and go home. as we are going home, we see the bowling alley and stop by to see if anyone was still around,and yes there was action there joey smith bowling someone and a couple of local bowlers hanging around, so i ask tony juliano if he wanted to bowl rudy and he agreed . they started on 33 and 34 and rudy flagged a 4 pin in the first followed by the next 5 using a plastic p 24 that he had just gotten from ernie off the tour truck, humming the 1/2 board lined up off the gutter which i neversaw rudy play before, and tony had the first 6 when he left the 3 6 10, rudy jumped him before he had a chance to make the spare threw a double messenger, for a 6 bagger, which promptly made tj miss all three pins, and rudy now confidently, takes it to the wall for a 279. tony says lets switch pairs to 1 and 2 and beats rudy with a 191 as the pair was pretty tough rudy bowling a 170 game. then rudy says lets switch the pair and throws the front 9 on five and six tony says lets switch again again rudy front 9 out of the wood on 7 and 8 , lets switch again , 9 and 10 again front nine for rudy and i ask rudy why he wouldnt shoot for the three hundred , he said he already had 4 this week, they switch again to 11 and 12 and again to 13 and 14, and i turned to rudy after 45 in a row match over, the only person that could beat, you here is not on this planet, only the man upstairs if he could carry as good as you
lenny d
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1958 - Park Circle Lanes - Brooklyn NY - Iggy
The first time I saw Iggy Russo was in 1958 at Park Circle lanes, when he came in on Fri night and challenged anyone in the house over the microphone, just after the singles classic league had just been completed, with some pretty good NY locals at that time, such as Jimmy Allen, Tom Ermolovich, Bert Goodman, Joe Santini ,Vinny Pantuso, Tom Caputi, Tom Camelleri, and a few more 200 plus bowlers. No one accepted Iggys challenge, however he bet $100 that he could bowl 120 right on the nose. The action started, Iggy off to the races throws a strike, then another and another again one more and Isay to myself whats this guy up too, when after he throws the 5th consecutive strike and says you lose, do you want me to press the re set or throw gutter balls the rest of the way 30 - 60 - 90 - 110 120 picks up the C note and says want more, so the crowd bets now 200 bucks, but he (Iggy) had to hit pins on every shot. The game commences again and Iggy a master at the game for leaving whatever he wanted worked his way to the tenth frame with 98 in the 8th a strike in the ninth, a sure lock for anyone who knew him cause, he could easily pick three off the right and three off the left. Now comes the 10th frame Iggy shoots for the 6-9-10 and low and be hold to everyones surprize, he picks the 6-10 clean, and now must get four of the remaining six pins to win the 200 bucks, no easy task for us mortal bowlers, but the legend again grabs the microphone, and for about 10 minutes walks up and down on the approach, saying should I try for the 4-7-8 sliding the backrow, leaving the 1-2-3-5 or should Icome in light for a bucket leaving the 2-4-5-8, or perhaps I should throw my loaded ball, a fade to the three pin and leave, the 1-2-4-7, any way you sliced it, a difficult shot. Iggy goes for the loaded ball, throws the fade and leaves the 1-2-4-7 for a winner, and had no more action for the rest of the night...Lenny D
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Summer of 62 - Iggy
Iggy Russo came to Ave M bowl to bowl stoop, with his backer bookmaker loan shark or whatever, for a thousand a game. Iggyu notorious for throwing games, his backer would bet on the other guy, knowing Iggy would lose the first game and line in later in the game, however this particular time , Stoop was doing the identical thing that Iggy was doing , trying to lose, with his backer betting a thousand on Iggy to win. What a predicament, when Iggy got up on the right lane in the tenth he found himself up 1 pin 106 to 105, then both backers proceeded to put a gun to Iggy, Iggys backer saying, you sold me out, he's doing worse than you, and stoops backer saying, I bet a grand on you to win, better throw a good ball, this was on lanes 19 and 20 as I was bowling a match on the opposite pair on the otherside of the house, 11 and 12, it was 3 am Sat morning, Iggy then got up to apparently throw the 10th frame, he collapsed to the floor, grabbing his chest, an ambulance got there 20 minutes later and took Iggy out on the stretcher apparently having a heart attack, being in his middle forties. At the first red light iggy jumped out of the ambulance and ran to his car, he disappeared for a couple of weeks...
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NY Invaders
SOME OF THE NY INVADERS LIKE CHICAGO BILL JARGELLA, TROY DAVIS AND DICK WEST FROM THE CAROLINAS, CAME INTO NY LIKE A HURRICANE AND TOOK ABOUT 40 TO 50 LARGE OUT, BEATING THE BEST EVERYWHERE, THE ISLAND , COLONY BOWL , GLENWOOD BOWL, CENTRAL, JERSEY, STATEN ISLAND, AS WELL AS JOE JOSEPH COMING IN TO NEPTUNE, NO TOUPEE AND MUSTACHE, AND BEATING BERT AND COMPANY.ALSO ASK STOOP HOW HE PARLEYED 2 BUCKS INTO $32,000 VS AL ROSA WITH A 30 PIN HANDICAP, BEATING HIM 15 IN A ROW...
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1960 - Leemark Lanes - Brooklyn NY
Richie Hornreich at age 12, bowled a doubles match with a 16 year old against 2 guys in the navy, at Leemark lanes Brooklyn with a rubber ball, bowled 8 games with a low game of 258, including back to back games of 289 & 2- 279s with three games in the 260s. What ever happened to Richie, thats even a longer story, but in my opinion he was better than Roth, Lemongello, Petraglia, Schlegel, and the 2 hand cradle of Joe Berardi.
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1988 - Showboat - Las Vegas
The old action vs the new action, the old timer, the Buffalo, and pa the lefty super star going heads up in Las Vegas with pa spotting the buff 75 pins , but the buff was bowling with a poolstick, the bet was a thousand and and my brother the buff was using a 10 lb house ball. He would shuffleboard the ball down the lanes, and play for deflection of the pins going hard and straight and beat pa easy with the handicap, lost only by a pin or 2, scratch being in the 180 range.
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1963 - Ave M Bowl - Brooklyn NY
Its a sunday night, I'm at Sid Gordens lanes with Bobby B the cab driver, he says lets go to Ave M and I'll bowl Mac Wagner 20 a game after the travel league, It takes 15 minutes to get to Ave M Bowl and the travel league is in their last game. The game ends, and we see that Mac had just finished shooting 490 plus in his own house on 19 and 20, so Bobby says to mac, want some action and of cours mac says yes, but Bobby, obviously not to swift, says lets bowl on 21 and 22 since you already bowled on 19 and 20. Big mistake, it was the fastest 20 Iever blew being partners with Bobby. Mac started with the first 6 one game, and the first 7 the next, 13 in a row both out of the wood early. Frustrated I turn to mac and say I'll bowl you on 19 and 20 , but first Ihad to look for a house ball and house shoes, 19 and 20 along with 23 and 24, 25 and 26, were my best pairs having bowled league there once a week. We start to bowl, I'm betting my 20 and a couple of the maple guys are there too also betting on me, Iproceed to win 6 out of 7 without bowling a game under 230 with a conventional rubber ball. That was a little better than Ibowled in that house with my own equipment, so I got the 40 I lost back plus 60 more, I figure its time to go. As im walking out, who is walking in? stoop. Who says to me where are you going, I said home, but Marty insisted that we bowl, since I shot great with a house ball I said to him only on 19 and 20 Marty was the best in the house and we occasionally fooled around fror stuck but never for real money, I respected his game and he was better than me. Well needless to say I beat Stoop also 5 out of 6 with the only game under 230 being the game I lost and another 100 bucks for me and about 3 to 400 more for the side action betters from maple lanes.]
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Early 1960s - Ave M Bowl - Brooklyn
Its friday night and I just finished bowling pot games at Park Circle, It's closing time so Jimmy McArdle and myself go to the Caton Inn around the corner on coney island ave for a few drinks, after about 4 or 5 drinks(7and7)for me I turn to Jimmy and say lets go to Ave M, I think we can make some money. Old man Al, who was between 80 and 85 and a good action bowler, I had bowled him twice before and we split maybe 30 games the first time and 20 or thirty games the second time, the old guy was tuff as nails and you would have to bowl 215 or better to have a shot, I told jimmy that the old man would be the only one there bowling practice on 25 and 26 and when we walk in he'd ask me to bowl but on 23 and 24 since he was already on 25 and 26. Ten minutes later we are walking in the door at Ave M, from the distance we see old man Al bowling on 25 and 26 and Jimmy looks at me and laughs, we approach Al and he says do you want to bowl me on 23 and 24, Jimmy smiles to me again. I had also told him that I would beat him 4 straight and he'd quit. We start the match and this is the first time I ever bowled drunk, and beat old man al 6 straight for 100, he congratulated me and said I never saw you bowl so good, having averaged 240 for the 6 games. For those of you who don't know me, I used to bowl off the wrong foot due to the loss of the use of my left leg to polio in the middle 50s. I would attract a lot of bowlers looking like a fish, perhaps, to some, but a shark to others...Lenny D
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1962 - Seaview Lanes - Brooklyn NY - Iggy
I'm in a doubles match with Joe Palase vs Pete Anos and Ed Beldau, we win 6 straight and Ed switches partners, bringing in Phil Marino on Phillys pair, 33 and 34. Joe didnt want any part of the match, I was bowling pretty good, out of the crowd of a couple hundred at 3am comes Iggy and asks to be my partner I said ok, but with trepidation, I cut my bet from 60 a game to 20, I was making 55 a week in wall street. I bowl 258 iggy shoots 176, we loose, about $2000 had been bet. 2nd game I bowl 248 Iggy gets 11 ten pins for 190, we lose again by 15, he deliberately left ten pins which he could do, he's a master. I'm almost ready to quit when iggy says stay 1 more, I got it, no one bets us, I give Iggy a 20 he now ups his bet from 20 a game to $2000 and shoots 290, we win. Now everyone wants us but Iggy shuts everyone out. I give him my 20, he bets another 2000, Iggy another 290 and me 220 to win again, now the heavy betters are ready to kill him because they cant get a bet on us, so Iggy collects 3500 this game marking down the names with no intention of winning, unbeknown to me at 21. The bet is now 1800 and Iggy pockets 1700 for himself shooting another 176 as I again was in the 240s to lose by 15 again. This happened the next game as well and I quit. The final outcome, I lose 40, Iggy makes 3500 in the middle over booking, and his partner in crime makes $10,000 in the back betting both ways, the signal from Iggy was a cigarette on the telescore meant a loss, otherwise he was trying, this was found out by me several years later by his partner in crime who shall at this time remain only as " S"
THAT YEAR WEBER LEADING MONEY WINNER ON TOUR MADE - $7500,
That night Iggy and S made - $12,000
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1962 - Leader Lanes - Brooklyn NY - Iggy
It's a month or so after a doubles match I had bowled with with iggy, at Seaview lanes, where much money was made by iggy and friend, it was a thursday night around midnight, the week before word had it that Mike Lemongello had cleaned out the house at Leader, I wanted to see if I could make a few bucks betting on him. I get there and only two bowlers are beside the desk man when I walk in, they were Joe C and Tony Farina. I asked them where all the action was, they too had heard that the week before the joint was jumpin, but not tonite. The 3 of us are walking out the door when who should walk in, of course iggy and says "where are you guys going". we said there's no action here , but Iggy says Im here, he looks at me and says do you want to be my partner again against these 2 guys?, I turn my head around and looking for side money action or another person, cant believing, he would tank me now, since there was not that much to be made. we go down to 5 and 6 and are playing for 25 a man which was 1/2 a week salary for me at that time. four games in a row the other 3 bowlers were in the 190s to low 200s and I was in the 220s. We sweep them for a 100 a piece and I turn to Iggy, just you and me left, how bout 50 a game. I'm looking to get back the money (40) I had lost a few short weeks ago at Seaview. We start the game, Im off to a spare and a 5 bagger when iggy who has 3 opens thru 6 picks up his ball and says Im getting out of here with 50 profit tonite. I pick up the lines and go home
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1962 - Mill Basin Lanes - Brooklyn
First let me say, that reading some of these storys, it might appear the i never lost, but i did lose some singles and a couple of doubles matches, its that the ones you lose you tend to forget,. with that said, here are 2 more winners, that i can remember, most of my action was done between 1960 and 1967, and here is one from 1962 possibly 63, but whose counting . it was the first year mil basin was open and i bowled in a doubles league, with alan lazar a 175 avg so we could make the 380 cap, not sure how we wound up , but i know it was close to the top as i had high average in the league at 201. one week al says to me i got us a doubles match for next saturday afternoon with allan berkowitz and some unknown 17 year old, from rainbow lanes by the name of george stillman. well i use to spot 25 a game to allan berkowitz a 180 bowler and beat him at least 3 times in the past, so i figured this stillman kid would have to be better than 205 to give us a run., so i went to mil basin thinking there would be no match, with no equipment. lazar was there, the stillman kid with several other kids were there also but no berkowitz, so they asked me to bowl singles. i look at this skinny crew cut kid with glasses, and say ok then i go get a conventional rubber ball and house shoes, we are playing for 10 or 15 a game whatever the gang of kids could come up with. from my recollection, the kid threw the ball great but would constantly hit the high boards and leave at least 2 washouts a game 1 2 4 10 or 1 2 10 and never broke 180 in 10 games, and i with the house ball and house shoes win all 10 games with not one game under 200 nor one game over 210. later within the next year this kid became one of the toughest match players in brooklyn, for many years to come and i believe, the one mark roth profiled his cranker game from at rainbow lanes just a few years later. while we are on the subject of mark roth and a few years later, its probably 1968 at leader lanes on coney island ave, when i walk into that bowling center and see several young bowlers, bowling across 12 lanes in a kangaroo game one game across 12 lanes. some of those bowlers i can remember were mike mucatell , ralph florio lefty joe tusa and the now after the fact great mark roth as well as 1 or 2 others. they let me in the game and with no practice shots start on 1 and 2 and go across the 12 lanes and bowl 234 throwing the last 5 and win the game and about 60 bucks, with tusa being 2nd in the 220s we start the next game where i continue to strike throwing the first 5 and wind up with a 232 and again win 60 bucks with tusa again finishing 2nd in the 220s they decided to quit and now youve heard another one of my nostalgic matches
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Love this!
Man I love this board. Reminds me of the days when I watched my idol, Ralph Engan take on all comers at Skytop and Paramus. Even bowled some action myself even though I was more of a contributor than a winner. The young guys today have no idea how great it was then. Seems like some of you want to resurrect the action days. Wouldn't that be something to see! Good job with this board guys. Great bowling, Gino
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The Beeper vs The Snake
Its the mid 80s and a saturday night late when the snake and i take a ride to laguardia lanes near the airport in queens ny, we heard there was some action there and went to take a look . well we walk in the alley and there is the beeper, who was again one of the better action shooters , and why did thecall him the beeper, because he had a turetts type syndrome , and would always go whoop, whoop , even while bowling and by the way , like mysel and lou campi before him , bowled off the wrong foot, but in match games like to go any where from 10 to 15 feet over the foul line, and just drive all his opponents nuts, with his beeping wrong footing the ball and going way over the foul line with the lights turned off. well snake had never seen this guy and i told him to put the foul lights on , before they started to bowl their match, otherwise no match. well that was a big mistake as well , because the beeper, whooped it all the way to the bank winning the first two for 500, and then we said , he could bowl , with the foul lights, having just shot back to back 260s. however , when the beeper threw his first shot he flew flat on his , face on the urethane surface , unlike the laquer surfaces that had quickly dried years before, and went immediately back to bowling behind the line and trounced the snake again with a .game in the 230s , for anyone who never saw him bowl, he was a true artist and craftsman, and always put on a show. lennyd
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THIS IS REALLY GREAT
IT BRINGS BACK A LOT OF MEMORIES OF NIGHTS SOME BOWLERS ONLY DREAM OF. THERE ARE SO MANY UNTOLD STORIES THAT SHOULD BE TOLD KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. ACTION ACTION ACTION THE SPICE OF LIFE.
(JIM BYRNES)
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I WAS AT MANY OF THOSE MATCHES AT DEER PARK
THEY WERE GREAT. WE ( THE LOCALS) USUALLY GOT THE BEST OF THE PROS. JOE SCIANIA WAS ONE OF THE BIG WINNERS ALWAYS CHALLENGING THE PROS AND WINNING . HE IS VERY GOOD , I RATE HIM RIGHT UP THER WITH THE BEST OF THE BEST WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING THE SHOT TO WIN IN THE TENTH (ALAN GANUT)
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1962 spadaro vs the ox
It was a cold rainey friday night and i had just worked late in wall street and being able to change clothes like i usually did , i go staight to the bowling alley at sid gordons, where a match between louie spadaro of brooklyn was going to bowl freddie the ox arbolino from long island for some big bucks. well i come marching into the bowling alley with a fedora, trenchcoat and a suit and tie and looked like the son of frank sinatra, if youcan picture , my picture shown in the photos of me 37 years ago with a fedora , and a trench coat. well i was known to most bowlers in that house and sat down to keep score for the big match. well there must have been about , 200 to 300 people in the back ready to wager on the game , and it is now close to 2am. they start handing me money and i am putting down the names on a piece of paper and the amounts of the wager. i put the oxes money in my inside right trench coat and louies money on the inside left pocket. the amount of the wager is exactly 2500, for the first game each , a total of 5000, im holding, when the match is ready to begin. all of a sudden i get a tap on my left shoulder and two guys also dressed in a trenchcoat take out their, wallet and flash a badge of somesort. i say "what was that " and again a badge is flashed real quick. i turn around , and now notice there is nobody in the back, and the 300 people there a minute ago seemed to have vanished. now its me and these two detectives. one of them says lets have it . i said what. they said you know the piece of paper you put in your pocket. ( with my name on top 30bucks) on the ox. i said you mean this , and proceeded to show them the piece of paper, as louie and the ox looked on. they asked what the names and amounts were and i told them money wagered on thwe game, and the people who were in the back just a short time before. they were surprised that there was gambling , and said to stop or ill bring you down town. now i was kinda hoping they did cause i had 5 gs, but when i asked , if they could continue , they said yes, but not with the las vegas , type crowd. so louie and freddie, decided no match, i gave them their money back. and now was headed out the side door with plenty of cash on me. when i open the door, there are 300 guys looking to collect their bet. i take out my sheet scratch out the names as i return the monies and it came out right to the penney, but one hell of an exciting evening and one i never forgot. if anyone sees freddie at falcaros or louie in new jersey, ask them if they remember that incident.( lennyd )…………………………………………………………………………………………..
SANTINI , HORNET AND THE SNAKE
Thursday, 29-Apr-99
Now that the other message boards are heating up with , fire, regarding the pros and cons of the game, here is the lighter side of bowling brought to you in brooklynese, and for the benefit of stevie wonder , joe s , richie and the snake.THIS AFTER NOON I GOT IN TOUCH WITH BOYS OF SUMMER, WINTER,SPRING AND FALL. I CALLED THE MAPLE PRO SHOP AND HERE IS HOW THE CONVERSATION WENT , WHICH PROBABLY COST ME 50 DOLLARS ON THE CELL PHONE LONG DISTANCE. pro shop, HELLO S, THIS CANE, yo cane wat da fug are you doin puttin snake, on da net makin 150grand. S, IT WAS A 160 GRAND, WHAT YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE IRS, ILL RUN THE SNAKE A BENEFIT MATCH, THAT WAS 20 YEARS AGO, YOU THINK HE KEPT RECEIPTS OF HIS MATCHES AND POT GAMES? so how come you dont have the great santini, beating johnny meyers , a week afta he won his foist title, for 10 gs? WHAT YEAR JOE? 65 , dont you rememba? josie was my bakka, i got 4 thou and she got 6., why dont you ask her? SHES MY NEIGHBOR, BUT HAVENT SEEN HER IN A WHILE. WHY DONT YOU PUT SOME STORIES ON THE SITE, S ? my fingas are tired from drillin balls(joe s in his middle 70s came to the usa 60 years ago from italy , and was johnny petraglias early mentor, as well as advisor to richie hornreich in the 60s) you put the story in cane. OK JOE, IS RICHIE OR THE SNAKE THERE? yeah ill get them. hey mopper whats up, YO RICH , YOUR FANS ON THE INTERNET WANT TO HEAR SOME OF THE OLD ACTION STORIES FROM THE PAST.whats with the boys and what did they do? THERE STILL IN AND ABOUT 3 TO 5. for what ? FOR TRYING TO RIP OFF A BOOKIE , ONE OF THE GUYS WAS WIRED SPOKE TO JUNIOR YESTERDAY, HES THINKING OF GOING BACK ON TOUR. tell him to keep his job , hes got to be kidding, send him to me foist. IS SNAKE THERE ? PUT HIM ON. yo cane whats this i hear you put me on the computa makin a 150 large? NO MOPPA, 160 , YOU WANT ME TO RUN A BENEFIT MATCH? HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY MONEY ? , YOU DONT HAVE A CAR , YOU DONT HAVE A COMPUTER , YOU DONT HAVE AN ANSWERING MACHINE , YOU CANT EVEN PICK UP THE PHONE TO GIVE ME A CALL. YOU GOT ARTHRITIS? you changed your area code, my father gave me the number. YOU WANT ME TO BUY YOU A TICKET? AIR FARE SPECIAL TODAY A BUCK TWENTY ROUND TRIP? i got some cash. BIG TOURNAMENT IN FLORIDA MOPPA 40 GRAND FIRST HANDICAP AND 4THOU SCRATCH FOR FOIST. DID YOU HEAR WILLIAMS BEAT BARNES? no who? JIMMY. where ? ON THE ISLAND 5 OUT OF 7 , FOR A COUPLE, WITH A REMATCH I THINK FRI NIGHT IF HE DONT MAKE THE SHOW . well i gotta go bowl. GET A COMPUTER TELL RICHIE TOO. PUT HIM BACK ON. OH RICH TAKE MY PHONE NUMBER , GIVE ME A CALL TUE OR THURSDAY EVENINGS, WELL GET YOU TELL SOME STORIES ALONG WITH THE SNAKE. ok take it easy im up got to bowl . TALK TO YOU SOON. lennyd hows that sws
( lennyd )
Hornreich Story
Lenny, You and Butch, and all the contributors of this sight really opened my
eyes and probably the rest of the young audience's eyes about Richie Hornreich.
I posted a question to Jim Dressel editor of the Bowlersjournal, as to why
Richie Hornreich was not on the list of the greatest 100 bowlers of the century,
even though The "Count" Guengler was listed as #25. This was Jim Dressels
response: "Bowlers Journal International Discussion Board Re: To Editor JDressel
- The Count what about The Horn Posted By: Jim Dressel
Wednesday, 8 December 1999, at 10:15 a.m.
Actually, I heard many stories about Richie Hornreich when I was living back in
the east coast, and saw him bowl several times in the old Kegler Bowling Club
scratch events when I was involved with that group. He was a helluva bowler, but
you wonder how many of the stories are true or not. I do know he found it
difficult on at least two occasions to get anyone to bowl him in some meaningful
"action"...
Which brings me to the point of this post -- it's probably time we do a story on
Richie, if he's willing. If anyone has any contact information, please send it
along. In the meantime, this is also a story that could be told through several
second party sources, like Roth, Berardi, et al. I don't know if we're going to
get the chance to talk to Joey about this one (does anyone know where he is?),
but certainly we can follow it up.
And as for why "The Horn" is not in our Top 100 and "The Count" is, let me just
say that it may be just as simple as that fact that Gengler got the ink, while
Hornreich didn't. Besides, mkano a mano matches were the order of the day in
Gengler's day, while the PBA Tour grabbed most of the headlines in Hornreich's
day... again, though, let's see what we can do about setting the record straight
with a story in BJ... "
I really have no relationship with Richie, but I know you still do. Perhaps you
can tell him that Jim Dressel would like to write an article about Richie. If he
is the greatest action bowler of all time, he deserves to be recognized as that.
Lou Gaudio Jr...
1976 - The Come Back
I worked on wall Street for a few years, I rose through the ranks quickly and became the manager of the margin dept at Reynolds & Companies but was very unhappy working for someone so I quit and purchased a NYC Taxi Cab medallion, much to the disagreement of my wife, who loved the idea of being the bosses wife at the office parties, what a down it must of been to now say my husbands a cab driver.
I decided to work nights which at least put me back in my environment. I started driving every night at 6 PM after the rush hour, I would stop at about 12 ( short hours ) and go to where it all started, the bar on Ovington Ave. The bowling alley part of the bar no longer existed, the poolroom was expanded, I was there for the card games that went on right at the bar. I would meet my partner Larry who also went to work on wall St and then purchased a cab with me. We both supplemented our nights pay from the card games each night, the other players just weren't in our class. It was like taking candy from babies.
One night we sitting there having a drink and just shooting the shit, I think we wiped everybody out, Larry was saying we should start getting some exercise, why not go bowling. At first I said no, but then he talked me into it, It was Tuesday about 2 in the morning and we soon found out that none of the local lanes were open 24 hours any more. I actually got a sick feeling in my stomach, I was 30 years old and felt as though my era had slipped by me.
We decided to take a gamble and drive out to long Island to see if Green Acres Bowl was open. On the way out we started to remenense about all the years of action we were involved in and could it be possible that it doesn't exist any more, I felt that was impossible, it was always there. It took about 40 minutes to get to get there, as we approached the shopping center, I found myself almost praying that it would be open. A great relief came across me when I saw the outside lights on.
As we walked into the alleys my eyes were searching every which way at once, Green acres was a very large bowling establishment. Would there be any action, would there be anyone I new. All of a sudden I spotted something going on way down at the end of the right side of the lanes. I found my heart actually racing as we walked down there, sure as shit! It was a match game. I felt a great feeling of relief go through my body, It was only one game, but that really seemed to mean something to me. I didn't know anyone there, they were descend bowlers, bowling for a few hundred a game, with about 8 people betting on the side. One guy was covering all the action for this one bowler called the Beeper, he was called the Beeper because he didn't talk, he beeped. The person backing him was named Barry , a middle aged Jewish man who owned a successful business in the garment center, and loved to gamble.
After watching a few games, I did what I hadn't done since I was 11 years old. I rented a pair of house shoes and started bowling with a house ball. I bowled a few games with Larry, we both bowled pretty bad, which was nothing new to Larry, he never was much of a bowler. The match game was over and every one was just sitting around shooting the shit.
From where I was sitting with Larry it wasn't hard to over hear them, it gave me a little insight into what was going on in the area. Thursday nights, the action was at Kuskies in Lynbrook Long Island after the Classic league, a rich trucking company owner by the name of Mac, was the big money backer there, Mac was in his mid sixties. Saturday night the action was at Yonkers Raceway Bowl, a 2 floor movie house, converted into a bowling alley. The big names came from all over for the weekend action. Friday night was Whitestone lanes in Queens. The biggest action around was being backed by Bill Daley, A thin guy about 5ft 10, in his mid 20s. Bill was a close to a duece shooter himself, but only went head to head with someone when he had a strong advantage. He figured people were willing to take a shot at his long money. His #1 horse was a 16year old by the name of Jeff Kidder, Jeff had ice water running through his veins, and was maybe the best action bowler I ever saw. Where Bill Daleys money came from, nobody seemed to know, supposedly he went into the Army broke, when he came out he started backing Jeff and Cliffie Burgland, he covered all bets, no matter what the amount was, nobody backed him down.
It was fun watching Jeff bowling against some of Macs guys from Kuskies, Mac sponsored quite a few top pro bowlers on the PBA tour. When some of his guys were in town, Jeff would bowl them, usually coming out on top. Instead of going to the bar every night we started to check out these different action houses, stayed quietly in the background, and just observed what was going on. Most of the players were different from the last time I was involved. To some extent the action was even bigger than when I was in it, but there wasn't as much of it, another big change was how careful everyone seemed to be about who they bowled, they all kept looking for an edge.
I was driving with Larry to Green Acres on a Monday night, this time I brought my own bowling ball and shoes, I kept them from years ago. Larry said I should get back in shape and bowl some of these guys. I agreed, but not the way he meant it. I told him my plan was for us to act like big money pigeons, I told him I wanted to bowl the backers, Barry, and then Bill Daley with Mac betting on him. Larry said it'll never happen, some one would know me from the past and kill the deal, besides, where would I get the type of bankroll needed to bowl these guys. I told Larry to leave it up to me, I could con them, and the bankroll would come from Dougie, who was doing very well with a Amcco transmission business that he owned.
It was some years since I saw doug , but I new if I told him I had a pigeon he'd come running. the only trouble was, Bill Daley was no pigeon, but that's where the money was. The first thing we did that night was bundle up all our singles from the cab business with some big bills on the top and bottom. I managed to start up a conversation with Barry, mentioned that I use to be a fairly good bowler years ago but can't seem to recapture it. I figured this way I was covered incase any one told him about me. I also mentioned that I owned a cab company.
I then started bowling against Larry a few alleys away and started flashing the bank roll after each game to pay off Larry for the game I just lost to him. That was the hardest part, being bad enough to actually loose to Larry. This went on a few days a week for the next 2 months, I formed a nice relationship with Barry, a few times he asked to join in with us and make it a 3 way pot game. I declined, I told him I've seen him bowl and I wasn't back in shape yet. Barry was a low 170s bowler, I was already shooting 190s or better in other houses when I practiced for real.
By locking him out I was setting him up for the big kill, then I figured the money I beat him for would be used against Bill Daly, with hopefully Mac betting on Bill, If all went right, I could make a couple of years pay. I already was forming a relationship with the both of them, whom both disliked Barry. I mentioned how Barry was trying to hustle me, and that if I could just get a little better I would bowl him, don't forget, Bill was a much better bowler than Barry. I kept coming off as a has been, with lots of fresh money.
Through out this period they saw Larry beat me for what seemed to be a small fortune, he would kid around with me and ask how much new money my cabs brought in for him that night, he acted very obnoxious. It got to a point where they all wanted a piece of me instead of just Larry getting it all. He actually would wink at them, as though to say, this is my private fish. I called my friend Doug in New Jersey, told him what was happening, and just as I had hoped he said to set it up, money was no problem.
That night at Green Acres I managed to barely beat Larry for the first time and started talking like a big shot to Barry, I said it's finally coming back, that I'm ready for him head to head. I think he thought I was nuts. Larry kept on saying that I shouldn't even consider bowling Barry I got mad at Larry, told him to get fucked, and in the heat of anger told Barry to name the day. To my surprise, Barry said the only place he would bowl me was at Times Square Lanes in Manhattan, or whatever it was called, 42nd St & B'way. That really through me for a loop, I couldn't figure it. Turns out that's the general area where his business is, and that's actually his home alleys. I was never at these Lanes let alone bowl there, I said no problem. The match was set for that Wednesday night.
I met Doug and his brother in front of a coffee shop near the bowling alley, Larry didn't come because he and Douglas weren't on talking terms, I gave him a piece of the pie anyway. Dougs older brother came with him, had arms like tree trunks and a permit to carry. The bowling alley was right around the corner from the famous Ames pool room, where the hustler with Jackie Gleason was shot. As we entered the bowling alley, we saw quite a few people waiting for us, we were amongst the few white people there, I was beginning to wonder if this was a mistake, maybe Barry knew I was hustling him. He greeted us and asked where Larry was, I said I was still pissed at him. I introduced Doug and his brother, who accidentally on purpose, let his piece be seen.
We started practicing, after about 10 balls each, we were ready to start the match. I asked Barry what he wanted to bowl for, to my astonishment he only put down $200. At this point Douglas stood up, faced the crowd of about 25 people, took out a tremendous wade of money, all $100s, and boldly announced, I'm covering the house, put it up gentlemen.
At that moment I felt sky high, it was a long time since I felt like this last. I went on to beat Barry 7 straight games, after purposely loosing the second game. The hardest part was keeping it close. Barry kept going into the office of the bowling alley and getting more cash, liked he owned the place, maybe he did. We took him and the crowd for $9000 cash, the last game was a $2500 marker.
I was paid the following week at Green Acres, Barry told me he'd never bowl me again. I told him that if I get better I'd like to bowl Bill Daley next, I think he knows what happened, he said to me, let me know when you set up the match, I'd like to bet on you, and then he winked at me. It took another month to set up a match with Bill Daley. Douglas was broke from the trotters, I got in touch with Paul, who made arrangements with his bookie Cubbie to back me. The match was set for Kuskies on a Thursday night at 1:30 am.
That night to prepare mentally for what I hoped to be the biggest money night of my life, I left my house the regular time for work, instead I went to the Manhattan Beach hotel and checked in. Went to my room, took a shower, asked for a wake up call at 9:30, laid in bed nude with just the sheet on me, I wanted to totally soak up the moment, daydream about beating Bill and Mac for about 50 big ones, all of a sudden the phone rings, It was my wake up call, I had dosed off.
I met Paul and Cubby, we went to a steak joint on the way to Kuskies. Cubby kept asking me if I was sure I could beat this guy, Paul had told him it was a shoe in, which was not true, Bill Daley was a very good bowler. Cubby wanted to know how much to bet, I told him to start off at $2000, he choked, but said OK. Paul said he would do the betting. I told him, Bill will just say to name it, just tell him the amount, no bluff plays, he's the real deal, don't mess with him.
We get to the alleys, pick a pair, and start practicing. Just like I hoped, Mac was there. I'm hitting the lanes real well in practice, Paul does exactly what I told him not to do. He asks Bill Daley, what do you wanna bowl for. Bill Daley immediately shoots back, 5 grand, Mac chirps in from the background I'll take ex-amount more on Bill, to save face for Paul I had to say, I only wanted to start for two.
I win the first game, tie the second game, win the 3rd and 4th, Bill comes over to me and has the balls to say, my lowest game is 214, and I haven't won a game yet. He said I had one of 2 choices. Change lanes or bowl Jeff Kidder on this pair. I said no to both, he said if I didn't pick one of the two, I would never get the chance to get into his pockets again, I told him to get fucked, and put my ball away.
We ended up winning $8,000, I never bowled him again. As we were walking out, Barry Bernstein was walking in, he really got pissed off when he found out about the match and I hadn't called him. He said it wasn't the money, it was the chance to rub it in Bills face.
It was mixed feelings on the way home, the money was good, but we felt cheated. Once again, Larry wasn't there, because he and Paul also don't talk anymore.
butch aka Cliff
Butch & Bill Daly
25 years later at Deer Park Bowl
Ave M Becomes A Big Time Action House
The real action started at Ave M when two guys by the name of Mac and Stoop joined forces and made Ave M their home. They would turn Ave M into probably the biggest action house in the Country. The big name bowlers came from all over gunning for these two Damon Runyan characters that would become legends in their own time.
One of the greatest moments I remember is the night this 16 year old tooth pick from Long Island came into Ave M with his backers. I honestly thought the ball weighed more than him. He went on to cleaning out the house, his name was Mike Lemongello, one of the greatest action bowlers of all time. He also did very well on the pro PBA tour as did many of the action bowlers that came out of Brooklyn, such as Johnny Petraglia and Marc Roth just to name a few.
Through out the years there were many good action houses in the Metropolitan Area, Paramus, Yonkers, Kuskies, White Plains, White Stone, Colony, Kings Lanes, Fitzimmons, Bowlmore, Gil Hodgers, and many, many more, but Ave M was in a league of it's own, thanks to Mac and Stoop.
These were the days that most of the major alleys stayed open 24hrs a day, 365 days a year. What more could I ask for.
In my teenage years I had one major problem, my father, he was very strict about me being home no later than 10pm. That was fine before I started hearing about all this great action that was going on late at night after the leagues were over. By this time we were living on a dirt lined Street in Bensonhurst, across the street from the Cemetery. One Friday night I awoke about 3:30 in the morning and started daydreaming about what must be going on at the bowling alley. It became to much to bare just thinking about it, so I decided to gamble, I very quietly got dressed and stuffed some pillows under my blanket and wrote a message that I left early to go fishing with my friends. My bedroom was in the back of the second floor of our home, I went out the window and jumped on top of the back door porch, I then climbed down the peach tree.
I walked the 10 blocks or so to the bowling alley, the anticipation and excitement was mounting every step I took, I felt the blood vessels in my temple jumping for joy. When I finally turned the corner at Ave M and McDonald, the site in front of me was beyond my wildest expectations. The entire block of the bowling alley on Ave M was loaded with double parked cars, they were all over the place, the entrance to the bowling alley was brightly lite and many people were hanging around outside the door.
As I made my way into the bowling alley my heart was pounding and now I totally couldn't believe the site in front of me. All 28 lanes were going and the place was so crowded you could hardly walk in. Money was being bet on the games like it was water and all the famous action bowlers that I had only heard stories about were there live and in the flesh. They came from all different areas, Long Island, New Jersey, Westchester, Philadelphia, you name it. My whole body was tinkling. I had to go to the bathroom real quick, which was on the second floor behind the locker rooms. As I walked up the steps there were people all over the place, a big crap game was going on inside the locker room. I really thought I died and went to heaven. From that day on I was totally and hopelessly hooked, the world of action was definitely my world.
Six months later after sneaking out of my house and returning before dawn almost every night of the week, it finally happened. It was about 4 am , I was bowling a match with a total of about 500 dollars bet on me, a very sizable amount in those days. It was the tenth frame, I needed 4 or more pins to win the match, as I picked up the ball, I saw my father standing there, starring at me. My knees were knocking, I hit my ankle, threw a gutter ball, and lost the game. My father said to me, pack up your gear and get in the car.
On the way home I expected to have my head busted open, instead, he listened to how much all of this meant to me, and he became my backer. I started spending every free moment I had at Ave M, I became a real good bowler, but was smart enough to stay away from the big names in the game. I bowled with the 190 class action bowlers. It was easy for me to make a living off of those guys. Certain nights of the week, the action was at different houses, Saturday Night was Central Lanes. Later on it would be Yonkers Bowl, Friday Night was Whitestone in Queens. Ave M was the only house that had the constant action 7 nights a week for a period of 2 to 3 years running.
We had all the great action bowlers coming there. Bert Goodman, Sis Montevano & Johnny Myers, Fats & Deacon, Kenny Barber, Joe Santini, Freddy the Ox, the greatest bowler that ever bowled on 4lb lead centered logs, Stoop was the second best. The list goes on and on. They would come in with their own crew of backers, and people that just wanted to bet on them. There's a whole story around each bowler and their backers which you'll see in the motion picture.
To say they were all very colorful characters, would be a vast understatement. What started bringing all these bowlers to Ave M and kept them coming back was Mac & Stoop, who mostly bowled as doubles partners at that stage of their lives. These were two of the biggest characters of all, especially Stoop. I never tired of their endless stories about their lives, on and off the lanes.
Besides being great bowlers they also were great whoremasters who loved to party. Mac was older and one of the most respected persons I ever met, as a bowler and a human being. The sixties was really a very innocent time in bowling circles, people were looking to make a rep for themselves, and a match usually ended when someone went broke.
The seventies were much different, everyone seemed to be looking for an edge. I saw matches end before they began, like the time at Yonkers bowl, when the great Richie Hornright walked off the lanes because his opponent Joe Beradi, threw 10 power house strikes in a row in practice. I was shocked, I never saw that before, and Richie was truly one of the best action bowlers in the world. AC Butch...
Brooklyn is the greatest.
Snake was an excellent action bowler in the 80's just ask Lenny the Cane. John Colossi was an excellent bowler. He won some Lustig's including the Bellerose Winter Challenge for $10,000. He also finished second in the Buddy Russel or Varipapa, forgot which one, I think he won a regional or two as well. He also bowled a lot of action in the early 90's. Simo Jr. was a great bowler but lost the battle to gambling and drugs. Simo Sr. was a great bowler. Saba was an excellent bowler. These people won tournaments and acheived things in bowling. I don't know what your talking about. Don't mention Petraglia, the man is a legend. Roth is the greatest bowler to come out of NY Metro area ever and he spent many a days in Maple. Brooklyn has the best bowling history in our area so respect it and the players that are from there. Long Island and Jersey have nothing in the history of our sport compared to Brooklyn. Brooklyn is where legends are made. Brooklyn is the greatest.. Anonymous
My First Action
It's 1953, I'm 9 years old and live on top of a carpet store on 5th Ave in Bay Ridge Brooklyn NY. On this Saturday afternoon I was with my father like many times before in a bar on Ovington Ave. But this was not just any bar, there was a pool room on the second floor, a restaurant and most importantly a bowling alley on the main floor. Even though I had visited this bar since I was old enough to sit on my dads lap I never was allowed to enter the bowling alley. This afternoon my father asked me if I would like to try my hands at bowling.
That was the beginning of my first and greatest love affair. My father was very good friends with the owner and made arrangements for me to come in any every day after school and bowl a few games for free, my old man would take care of the pin boys at the end of the week. It took almost a full year before I broke the magical score of 100, and what a thrill that was.
It's now 5 years later and at the age of 14 I was already a seasoned league bowler, I was the sub on my fathers bowling team and when ever he would rather sit in the bar and have a drink, which would be quite often, I would take his place on the team. It was the last night of the bowling league and we were in second place bowling the first place team, we had to win all three games to capture the championship. I had been bowling real well, so my father let me bowl all three games, I came through and helped the team sweep all three, we were number one.
The best bowler on the other team, Jimmy Nolan, for that matter, the best bowler in that part of Brooklyn, was a southpaw that threw a real big hook, he was in his mid twenties, was the head pin boy at ovington Lanes, and had a hot Irish temper. My father was in his mid thirties, was a Swede, and had a real bad square head temper. One word lead to another, I was astounded when I heard my father say, I'll put my son up against you in any other house but this one, how much do you have the guts to bet.
First of all, I had never bowled for money before, outside of league bowling and some pot games (that's where a group of guys, put up say a buck each, and the highest game wins the pot) Jimmy was considered unbeatable at ovington, that's why my father said in any other house. To me it all sounded crazy; I was very good for my age, but not in Jimmies league. We go down to Lee-mark Lanes on 88 St, I was never there before, it was one of the brand new big modern bowling establishments.
My father and Jimmy agreed to a three game total wood match for $50. I was bowling with an Ace black and white ball; the type used on the black TV lanes every Saturday night from Neptune lanes in Brooklyn. As I stood at the line, ready to throw my first ball, my legs were shaking so badly I thought I was going to fall right on my face. Jimmy started with a split, some how the ball fell out of my hand for a strike. I went on to bowl the three best games of my life up to that point, 258, 277 and 238 for a whopping 773. Needless to say I won the match, My father gave me the fifty dollars plus fifty more from the bowling league championship, all in one dollar bills, The bank roll was so big I could hardly put it in my pocket. The next day, I walked in for the first time to the place where this story really begins, Ave M Bowl, I had a hundred in my pocket, my ball and bag in my hand, I was on top of the world.
Big Time Action and Action Houses
What house had the longest run of big time action, who was second & third. How long, and what where the years...Herbie
Oldest action house is probably Homefield in the yonkers area. Daily afternoon action house for probably around forty years. woodhaven lanes in queens maybe number two. action constantly there sat nights from early eighties until early or mid nineties. central lanes in yonkers around from early sixties until it burned down in 1968 biggest of all times, saturday night until sometimes sunday evening. most weekends at least 40 out of the 50 lanes had action. it was incredible, like continuous casino action. bowlers came from all over, as far as Florida looking for action. if you were looking for action no matter how bad you were or how good it was there. once in a lifetime. never again...OldTimer
I disagree. Gun Post had as much or more action than Central but because it got raided all the action moved to Central. There were nights at Gun Post that you couldn't get to the snack bar because it was too crowded. Action on just about every pair and all the big names. Jake Charter, Joel Meyers, Frankie Medici, Ernie, Mike Limengello, Fats and Deacon, RALPH, Howie Polefski, (my favorite) Jack Clemente, Iggy Russo, Chicago Bill, Billy The Kid, Doc Iandoli etc. etc. etc.
If you remember Gun Post, here is a trivia question: What was the name of the manager?
JK...
I was part of the action scene at Ave M Bowl in Brooklyn in the sixties, at that time there were many action houses it was great.
I've been to Central a few times but know nothing about Gun Post, I'd love to hear some more.
What years, what nites, what were some of the big matches, I'm an action freak, to bad it doesn't exsist anymore. All there is now is a bunch of fouled mouthed punks cursing each other.
Big Mouth Billy...
Jk, you are right about GunPost. Don't remember the manager's name but remember sitting down around three am at the counter for a burger next to Pyscho Dave and saying "how you doing". He said he lost $20. Found out he had started with $20, bowled Ralph Engan and beat him about seven straight doubling each game until he was up 1280 bucks and lost the eighth.
Stevie Wonder...
Big Mouth Billy, no I'm not shear. I was from upper Manhattan and had a pro shop on Broadway from 1963-68. The glory days. Spent much time at Central, Gunpost, Yonkers, Inwood(my house), The Hub, Homefield, Skytop, Fiesta, Whitestone, etc.
SW...
Nothing compared to Central. Ask anybody that was there. Whenever the pros were in town, they knew where to go.
Question for Stevie Wonder. Who was the best action bowler you saw?
Ernie Schlegel was the toughest, feared nobody. Also loved Ralph Engan.
But for one year at Central Dewey Blair was incredible, then he dissapeared.
SW...
Steve, what did you think of Jeff Kidda, I thought he had ice water in his veins, the best I ever saw.
Do you know of any bigger backer than Bill Daley.
Big Mouth...
Stevie Wonder. Surprised you forgot about Hornreich and Limongello? Who was better than Hornreich?
The truth is there were so many great action bowleres in the 60's that everyone has their favorites. It's like picking great hitters between Joe DiMaggio And Ted Williams.
Lemon and Horn were two guys I loved seeing.
Daly was the biggest backer for sure.
Big Mouth...
guest big mouth. Were you at central the night dewey whipped Limongello? Heard that lemon was getting whipped so bad, they had to pull him off the lanes.
were you ever at skytop?
I never saw Dewey Blair lose at Central. He beat everybody. But this was all 40 years ago. So don't have any specific memory of Lemon being dragged off the lanes. I do remember guys being tapped out and borrowing money from Max the shylock to stay in the action. That was really crazy since the vig was ten percent a day.
Went to Skytop several times. That was Ralph Engan's home. He and Hank Boroughs were a really tough pair.
SW...
max charged 10 pts. a week, not a day. Did you see the match at skytop when dewie kicked Ralph's ass and quit at 8am to go to school. He was only 16. Dewey quit bowling a fewyears later and joined the navy after he hurt his bowling arm and was never the same again. heard that he bowled in the newsday in the seventies, but was never the same bowler as when he was 16.
Stevie, did you ever see Kenny Barber?
You're right about Max. I knew it was a week. No,didn't see Dewey cream Ralph at Skytop, but I do remember Dewey was only 16-17 when he was around. Thanks for telling me what happened to him. He was a real quiet clean cut kid. Looked out of place with all of us so called low lifes. Am I losing it but didn't Dewey show up at Central the first time with a backer who flashed a gun in his waistband?
Kenny Barber was terriffic and a nice guy too. Did you see Frankie Medici bowl action? He was similar in size to Lemon but not as good. A Bronx kid.
Funny, I haven't thought about all this in many years. I was in my late teens and twenties when it was happening. The best part was not really the money but the laughs and seeing so many great characters who could bowl like demons. All the talk setting up matches and milling around looking for an edge was priceless.
SW...
how about ira the whale katz. i only heard of him ever losing once to steve cook at hempstead. i always heard he was one of the best action bowlers ever from long island
TITS...
the whale was real good, but never in the class of limongello. he did get creamed by steve cook at royal lanes. should never have been on the same pair as this pba hall of famer
Real Smart...
Answers for some questions: The other real big backer was the guy that came with Dewey Blair....Steve do you remember his name? The match at Skytop ended at about 6am not 8am and he didn't destroy Ralph I think he came up 2 games. But your right he did destroy Mike L. and Ernie and everyone else he bowled during that short period of time. For my money the best I ever saw and I would put Jeff Kidder 2nd.
See you Friday Steve.
JK...
OK some more answers: The managers name at Gun Post was "SKI".....remember now?
For the guy who asked about Gun Post:
48 lanes on 2 levels. Sat. night after 1 am there was action on every pair (no open play bowlers ever) There were crap games in the mens room AND ladies room,card games at the tables etc. Usually there were no women in the house except for Psycho Dave's girlfriend. Oh by the way Steve I bowled psycho Dave once after he came from a wedding. He bowled in his tux and I wrecked him. I was told that he used to send his girlfriend out to the car to have sex with guys so he could have more money to bet. Not sure if that's true or not. But the best part about Gun Post was Howie Polefski. Great bowler and the funniest guy on the planet. I was there the first time it got raided and they took Ernie and Mike Ginsberg and a bunch of other guys (including Ski) and then they ripped the scoretable out to have evidence of the gambling. It seems all the names of the guys betting in the middle were written on the scoretable. I miss those days!!!
JK...
Last I heard Dewey Blair was bowling in a house in Newberg NY (where he lives) and was bowling 3 games a week and averaging about 216. That was about 6 years ago. I was told he is an architect today. You're right Steve he had a lot more class then the rest of us.
JK...
JK, I do remember Ski. More about Gun Post. Mike Ginsberg was upstairs betting around 7am one morning. All of a sudden his Father shows up and says "So these are the bums you hang out with" tells Mike they are leaving for vacation and he should go down to the car. He says "no, I'm staying here". The father goes out to the car and throws Mike's clothes in the street and drives away.Everyone was upstairs looking out the window. Mike just ignored it all.
We all thought Pyscho Dave was a pimp.
I was there when it got raided also. Funny because they unscewed the score table with all the bets wriiten on it and took away the kid keeping score.
After that incident the action started big time at Central.
SW...
I remember Kenny Barber from Kings Lanes on Flatbush ave. I threw a real big ball for the time, was a lot of fun to watch, who rembers the Dwoskin brothers, Lenny the cane and his con artist brother who served time in Texas
Old Brooklyn Action Bowler...
buffalo is out of the slam after 5 years on probation, lives not far from ft. lauderdale and fries burgers for a living. Were you old timers at seaview? did anybody witness the iggy heart attack match? And it's hard to believe you guys felt dewey was the best and not hornreich. from what the horn said, dewey was great but was not that good of an inside shooter. And ironically, schlegel was from newburgh while bowling the action in the 60s.
Never heard of Seaview where was it? I did not witnes the fake heart attack but it was THE topic of discussion for years afterward. OK here's the deal........Richie Hornreich was a great action shooter one of the best ever. Richie played inside everywhere almost never played outside atleast not when I watched him so how are we to know if he could play outside Dewey was either outside or down and in if he had to play 3rd arrow he would have gotten nose bleeds. Two very different games both great bowlers but for that period of a year or so NOBODY and I mean NOBODY beat Dewey. You could watch him bowl 10 games and never see him shoot anything other than a one pin spare usually the 4 pin. I'm sure the reason was he wanted every ball to be packed so of course he would leave more 4 pins than 10 pins. I'm sorry you never got to see him bowl it was a thing of beauty. Oh by the way spoke to a friend of mine in Fishkill today and he told me that Dewey started a league last year at Fishkill Lanes was averaging 228 and quit after 6 weeks because he didn't like the shot. ( must have been inside) Ha!
Later
JK...
Ernie Schlegel didn't move to Newburgh until the very late 60's or even later. He lived in my neighborhood(Inwood) in upper Manhattan. Another memory. Ernie and I went to a small old house in the Bronx named Boston Road Lanes. He bowled a cab driver named Sy Million. Sy broke us and had to drive us home in his cab
Inside, outside, all I know is Dewey Blair was inhuman and never lost to anybody. He was a machine.
JK, bring pictures.
Anybody bowl action at Whitestone? That was a real good house with all the regulars.
SW...
ernie was a resident of newburgh when central was at it's biggest in 1967. so the question has been answered. The horn was better, since he could play any part of the lane, from the gutter(leader lanes in brooklyn) through the fourth diamond-which not many could in those days(lemon could and naturally ralph who could hook the whole lane). seaview located in canarsie. seaview and colony and avenue m also in brooklyn were the biggest in the very early sixties. philly marino was the king at seaview and colony.
Buffalo is alive and working the snack bar at sawgrass lanes in sawgrass florida. His brother the cane got hitched again a few years ago, lives not far from Sawgrass and disappeared from the game two years ago. his site has been empty that long. nobody had a better memory for stories than him, from iggy to horn to lemon, etc. Too bad the old days disappeared. nobody needed a lock and the sailors were always there, seven, eight, nine down and still bowling as long as they had cash. CENTRAL was awesome. If you were winning you could win a ton. if you were stuck, there was always a match to get you out. Why did it have to burn down?
Real Smart...
Some facts about Richie Hornreich, so much talent but being a degenerate gambler was his downfall(horses, casinos, etc, etc, etc). Could have been a great pba bowler.
1. at the age of 16 finished 10TH in the world invitational in chicago against the best around(carter, weber, etc.)
2. averaged 217, unheard of in those days at bedford bowl.
3. first to average 200(206) at the toughest alley in the east, bowlmor
4. won the vargo one year, 4 lb. wood, with a 1060 or 1080 for 5.
5. destroyed jim godman, pbahof at central in 1967 after he had just won the firestone.
6 etc, etc, etc
ExDegenerate...
I can't believe Lenny went back into the frying pan. After that first marriage was finally over and Lenny started leading a real life in Florida, making money, doing what he wanted when he wanted, living the life he deserved to live how did he get sucked in again, I really thought he was to smart to be trapped like a rat.
I don't know his new wife but I'll give ya 10 to 1 odds Lenny is saying to himself, what a schmuck I was, how did I fall for this shit, just about all women are demanding and demeaning, I bet she is totally controlling him because unlike his brother Buffalo, Lennys a nice guy.
I feel so bad for him, what a shame, woman are also very abusive in their own way, I hope for Lenny's sake that at least there's only her and she didn't bring a whole family into the mix for Lenny to suppoert.
Lenny, WHY?
Give Me A Break...
What the hell does Lenny getting married have to do with this topic. Whoever you are, didn't you have a mother? Get a life.
Now let's get back to all the great people and action stories.
SW...
The cane did marry again with luggage. he had many problems in the beginning and was ready to pack it in. She was abusive. Apparently, they worked it out because he seems to be happy. However, she did take him away from the one thing he loved, bowling and action. Hopefully, since has now hibernated, we will hear more stories.
ExDegenerate...
How did the Horn do playing the gutter?? I know I saw Richie get beat but I never saw Dewey get beat so I still disagree about who was better. If you never saw Dewey you really can't comment. Any of you oldtimers who saw both of them give us a vote. Another great inside shooter before central was a guy named Frankie Medici out of Tremont Lanes in the Bronx. I have a great beeper story but I'll save it for another time.
JK...
Saw Joey Berardi at his father's funeral about a month ago. He is living in Staten Island and sells MRI equipment. He said he has his own company. Another great talent (like the Horn) who had a big gambling problem.
JK...
It was Berardi's wife that had the problem. A degenerate gambler. That is the reason, he quit the tour. Whatever he was winning, she was losing.
And Berardi's best in ACTION was not close to how good Richie was in ACTION. As to the tour, Berardi was the first bowler that i ever saw win a stop playing inside the 5th diamond. This HOF won the US OPEN, MASTERS AND TOC.
ExDegenerate...
JK, I heard enuf about Dewey from many others and Richie to comment. Dewey was like Ernie, he could not play inside with rubber. Of course, Ernie is blind in one eye. Richie could do so much more and Dewey was only around for such a short period. Richie many times betting 1g out of his pocket. He accomplished so much in about a five or six year period. Saw him make the 7-10 to win a match at central betting a grand. Richie showed no pressure. One day in vegas, Burton challenged Richie for 1g to a three game total wood match. Richie said where he came from, they bowl one game at a time. He whipped out 10g for one game and Burton disappeared like a skunk.
It would have been great to see Dewey, but I went to Central in 1967. I take nothing away from Dewey but Richie was the best around in his time.
Ex Degen,
They BOTH had a gambling problem, trust me. I know Joey and Donna very well. They are a lot of fun to be around and I hope those days are over for them. Haven't hung around with them for a long time but it was great to see them (unfortunately) at Joe Sr.'s funeral.
All I said was Dewey was the best for the short time that he was around......he was unbeatable and he didn't HAVE to play 4th arrow so why does it matter if he could? I still want to hear from those who saw both.
JK...
Why does it matter?. Because in the real action days with rubber, not too many could play inside-richie, lemon, ralph, etc. And if Dewey would have been around in 67 he could have bowled the hornet. Richie feared nobody and too many feared him, And I'm sure Dewey must have lost when you were not around. Dewey must have thrown a full roller. he probably played the track most of the time and was not that tough on oily conditions. the horn was great on dry and oily. We will never know. My cash would have been on the horn. It's like the dispute on who was better, the horn or lemon. in the words of lemon's brother pete the former singer as told to the cane a few years ago richie was better. how much better a few pins. in my book they were equal. lemon another waste of talent due to gambling. 6 wins on the tour in less than ten years, including two majors in 1971, which got him into the pbahof. been dealing in AC for close to 20 years.
ExDegenerate...
My apologies. Joe's wife's name is Debbie not Donna and I have no clue why I wrote that except that at my age I'm partially braindead.
The other thing I wanted to say was: Gambling is a disease like drinking or anything else. Take that away from the Berardi's and they are super people.
JK...
Never knew or heard about berardi's gambling problem. Saw him last about 20 years ago. if you say so and apparently you knew him well, I can buy that.
Another reason why ROTH was so great on tour, no gambling not that he ever bet alot in action. Richie had the talent to be great on tour and lemon would have won many more stops, if not for the degenerate gambling. The downfall of many in all sports. ask pete rose and denny mcclain, back in the joint again a few years ago. of courst it never affected michael jordan who has millions to blow.
ExDegenerate...
As good as these great sixties action bowlers were, how do they stack up against Jeff Kidda, I could be wrong but I think Jeff bowled in more big action matches than anyone else and stayed on top longer than the rest.
Why didn't Jeff ever turn pro.
Zoo Master...
To me Jeff was second to Dewey. Again Dewey only bowled for a year or so and Jeff bowled forever so hard to say. As far as why Jeff never turned pro is very simple. He made a lot more money betting basketball and football then he could ever have made on tour. Most of you don't know this but Jeff is a genius. He had bookies in many states and would bet both teams in their home town and catch middles for BIG money. I used to play golf with Jeff,Joey B. and Teata every Wed. in Paramus. We played partners and switched every week. Teata is about a 4 handicap and the rest of us were about 12's so whoever had Teata got strokes.
Jeff had ice in his veins I swear. If he needed to make a putt for the $ he made it....period. Last I heard he owned a couple of restaurants and would use his plane to back and forth....yes he is a pilot. Till next time.....
JK...
Jeff kidder got really good when urethane lanes came in 1976. before that charlie faino was the best in the country for about 5 years. jeff retired from gambling a few years ago, lives in Hilton head and plays the market for a few clients as told to me by his former partner Bill Daly. Daly also kept a diary of all the matches they were involved in. To say kidder was the second best, you probably never saw much of Hornreich. He beat up on better bowlers. kidder did not have alot of tough competition, although he did crush Roth at Rainbow in a doubles match. And he never went on tour, because he gave up the game to become a professional gambler. he was one of the biggest around, betting 10g a game and up.
ExDegenerate...
Ex Degen,
Jeff was making big gambling bets before he started to bowl action. He quit the action because it was hard to find big money matches.
JK...
jk, that is not true. I first met Jeff when Charlie tuna brought him to Raceway when he was about 15 in 1969 or 1970. Jeff started making those big bets on sports after 1975-I knew him from 1969-1975. We used to call him Young Jeffrey. HE bowled alot of doubles with JOhnny Bell during the early seventies. They rarely if ever lost. He quit the game in 1981 to focus on being a professional gambler. These are facts. I came back to the game in 1982 and he was gone.
ExDeg...
More on Jeff. You should locate his partner, Bill Daly. He has a diary of all the matches they were involved in. Heard, again only heard that he carried his own pins.
He did challenge Earl Anthony at Garden City. Earl told him to come to Seattle. He did. For reasons unknown, the match never took off. He did not always win the big ones. In 1978, he traveled to Baltimore and either bowled Pete Couture or george Pappas. Jeff lost around 5g.
ExDog...
Whoever said that Ernie Schlegel was living in Newburgh in 1967 and that I was wrong when I said he moved there in the late 60's was the wrong one. He moved up in 1968.
Also, he NEVER threw a loaded ball with Mercury for money. We fooled around with it, but only for fun and never for money because it was uncontrollable. They were old house balls that we plugged up and redrilled to fit.
Finally on Dewey Blair. Agree with JK, if you never saw him, you can't have an opinion. He was the best, period.
Thirty five years later, he still bowls in the mid 220's.
That's three games a week.
SW...
Ex DEgen,
The more I think about it you may be right about Jeff. I may have my years mixed up. But I know he was gambling and still bowling action but don't remember the dates.
Butch,
I will ask my friend in Fishkill to see if he can get in touch with Dewey and try to get him on the sight.
JK...
I would have to say that the biggest success story of a guy who was just a hustler has to be Ernie Schlegel. He really never worked except here and there for a bowling alley and only so he could practice for free. He's come a long way from his modest beginnings as a janitor's son.
Most of the other action bums that I knew had legitimate jobs during the day and went to the action on the weekends, like myself.
It's a great subject Butch lets see if anyone else can come up with some names and how they have succeded.
JK...
Chuck Sharp who was Mike Kilgannon's backer in the 70s has lived in Vegas for many moons and has been a millionaire for many moons since he has been there. Do not know exactly what he does, but Jimmy Mchugh has been working for him for many years.
Ernie is still a hustling bum when he can be. Saw him at Carolier less than ten years ago hustling a backer and still yelling fruit salad. Still remember what a turd he was when he beat Randy Pedersen for that 50g. Chirping to Randy the entire match attempting to blow his concentration. Randy left a stoned 8 in the tenth to lose. Ernie has always been a scumbag in my book, although I made more money on him than anybody else at Central. Do not remember ever walking away a loser on any of his matches I bet on for at least six months.
EXDeg...
Nice talk bigshot. I guess you should drop the "EX" from your name because you surely talk and act like a degenerate and I'm sure you are. What balls. Ernie has more talent in his pinky than you could ever hope to have. I can hear you now in the backround "Yeah Ernie fruit salad babe" as you collect your bet and then on the way home call him a scumbag. You f**kin lowlife. It's guys like you that made the action a piece of shit as it progressed. In the beginning it was just a bunch of guys lookin to make a buck gambling. For a while I thought you might have put that part of your life behind you but I guess not. Well we know you're not one of those degenerates who have become a success.
JK...
JK, you are 100% right. You might have bet on Ernie Ex Deg but you never knew him as a friend like JK and I did.
He has a terriffic wife and family, lives clean and sober and is the longest active member of the PBA. Has a nice home in Washington State and is is good businessman who loves the game. He tries very hard to promote the sport and raise the prize money by advocating an arena set up for more attendance and (don't laugh) but the way tennis is played for concentrated excitment.
Sure we had some times we're not proud of but, it was alot of fun and laughs and we've moved on. You obviously haven't.
SW...
The fifties and sixties were priceless, it was a time that the action bowlers just mainly wanted action. Sure they wanted to win $$$ but being in action was the most important thing.
Characters were plentifull, both on the lanes and betting on the side, the seventies were more about the money, the eighties were'nt bad, averything after that was straight downhill.
Old Timer...
Moved on to believing that schlegel is a classy bowler. Stevie, you and that dipshit Jk are the ones that are blind. He will still try to distract his competition when he can.
Did you geniuses know that the 25 second rule was implemented because of Schlegel? The pros were compalining years ago that he took too much time to deliver. I will admit that he is still a clutch bowler and does well on the ridiculous team challenge no shot conditions. I still would not trust him as far as I can spit.
ExDeg...
the best was ernie by far he beat all of them from dewey to ralph,jake lemon ritchie even the great joe s we made alot of money together.only the manhattan clique,or if he let you bet on him made money the ex was saying those things because he was still mad because he lost all the time.this is fact i grew up with him and went to the action with him. their was the bronx clique 2 or 3 of them depending on what lanes you bowled out of, the same with everybody thats what made the action each clique thought their bowler from brooklyn,queens or longisland was tops only the money separated who was and that definitly was him.
Sicle st...
How do you rate Ernie against Jeff Kitter from the mid seventies to the time Jeff gave up action bowling, did they ever bowl each other, did they ever call each other out.
Regie...
Sickle St, you sound like you were there in the days of all the real action. Do you agree with JK and me that Gun Post was the best place for action in the whole tri state area?
Were you there when Ernie and Lemon wiped everybody out in doubles?
SW...
sicke st, if you were in central in 67, schlegel never beat richie or lemon. Ernie was great as long as the shot was outside. Ernie could never play inside because he is blind in one eye. so many here really do not remember how great richie was. does anybody here remember how great charlie faino was from 1970-1975. he lived off of action and raised a family doing so. he was unbeatable during this era and rarely lost. when urethane lanes came into play in 1976, charlie's full roller was not as effective and jeff kidder became the king. somebody asked who was better jeff or ernie. at their best kidder was, from 76 until his retirement in 81. he was the best in the country. ernie was never the best at any point in the sixties. of course the competition was much stronger in the sixties.
ExDeg...
Ex Deg, love to know who you are. Bet, we all know each other from the old days. From your posts, sounds like your were one of Lemon's friends from Bklyn or Queens.
Give us a hint.
SW...
lemon never knew me. I always bet in the back. Same with hornreich. Became friendly with Richie at Fiesta. have not seen him in a few years, although I know you can find him at maple every afternoon. remember buffalo. saw him in florida over christmas. he got out of the slam last year or the year before after doing five years in Federal. He's flipping burgers in a bowling alley.
still would not trust him as far as i could throw him. and he weighs 300+
ExDeg...
ralph engan was the smoothest bowler I have ever seen. He was the Fred Astaire of getting to the line. He never ever beat Hornreich. You guys do not remember or were not at central in 1967 to see just how great Richie. He beat jim godman the pba hof with about 18 titles including the toc in 1967.he kicked his ass in doubles bowling with ernie against lemon and godman. and destroyed him when godman came back again for singles. in both matches godman averaged close to 240 and could not win. richie had so much talent from 16-21 and threw it away gambling. he's still good, but not even close to what he should have been.
Logged
Ex Deg
there were alot of good bowlers in central but pairs and match-ups were always key to winning. i remember larry litchstien bowling with a woman in doubles and kicking ass,then they knew who dotty fothergill was. he also bowled kenny barber and chopped him up pretty good,he was the only lefty i knew who could hit central rags never found a pair he liked but he was always game to bowl.one of the best matches i seen was dewey and ernie,the first couple ernie beat him easy and dewey's backer(darba)said lets step it up and ernie agreed. next match they both were lined in 259 to 258 ernie,next 268 to 300 ernie,next match 257 to258 ernie the place was buzzing from the begining and only got better and so did the money darba loved to bet,now dewey didn't look like he was going to stop striking so ernie like the good hustler said he was getting tired they stepped up the action some more and ernie was right dewey beat him the next 2 and the match was over,it was like ali and fraiser in their prime.who really won ernie won a nice piece of change and darba lost a couple 100 the late comers looking to make a score thinking ernie would never lose didn't mind they got their moneys worth,this it why we love the action just to see some great matches.i know thats why i was there
sickle st
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